tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post1710171921467542425..comments2024-01-26T00:12:27.541-08:00Comments on GoPro/CineForm Insider: Canon HV20 - 24p or not?Davidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11820803180730920007noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-80751732473738376692009-04-09T10:48:00.000-07:002009-04-09T10:48:00.000-07:00And I recorrected that in later posts and in many ...And I recorrected that in later posts and in many forum discussions on the subject. The mistake made was the confusion of 4:2:0 progressive sampling versus interlaced sampling. The fields are completely separable and therefore the pulldown is reversibleDavidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820803180730920007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-89467095531528426872009-04-09T10:22:00.000-07:002009-04-09T10:22:00.000-07:00" CineForm Aspect HD does support automatic extrac..." CineForm Aspect HD does support automatic extraction of 24p from HV20's 60i stream. However, Ridlen is correct that the 60i encoding of 24p is not completely reversible, whereas the in 24F in the XH-A1 and XL-H1 is it. The reason the lack of completely reversibility is the 4:2:0 60i encoding which has only chroma value for pixels over two scan lines -- these scan lines may contain data from DavidNJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-16398021826209225332009-04-07T17:37:00.000-07:002009-04-07T17:37:00.000-07:00What artifact?What artifact?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820803180730920007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-5568631687799241982009-04-07T16:54:00.000-07:002009-04-07T16:54:00.000-07:00Now I'm confused. Didn't you say there was an arti...Now I'm confused. Didn't you say there was an artifact every fourth frame? What causes that artifact? It would seem to be tied to the 2:3 pulldown.DavidNJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-40777819413867213692009-04-04T19:41:00.000-07:002009-04-04T19:41:00.000-07:00While the results are progressive the encoding is ...While the results are progressive the encoding is interlaced, so it doesn't matter whether the chroma is 4:4:4, 4:2:2 or 4:2:0, the chroma for each field correctly matches the luma for that field. As each of the fields for luma and chroma are separable, pulldown can be fully reversed.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820803180730920007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-32820949852780391952009-04-04T19:04:00.000-07:002009-04-04T19:04:00.000-07:00David,Could you elaborate how the 4:2:0 chroma sub...David,<BR/><BR/>Could you elaborate how the 4:2:0 chroma subsampling is stored with B-C split frame in 2:3 pull down of AAB-BB-BC-CD-DD. <BR/><BR/>Thanks,<BR/><BR/>David<BR/><BR/>P.S.<BR/>Does it affect the newer HF S10/100s also?DavidNJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-91280916782389814032007-10-18T19:02:00.000-07:002007-10-18T19:02:00.000-07:00sound like to me everyone that bought xha1 is prob...sound like to me everyone that bought xha1 is probably pissed off that the hv20 that is under 1000 dollars really rivals it,and I have seen amazing footage made from it, people that paid $4000 for that camcorder is in denial about the truth period!!!and honestly I would be too if i own one....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-19987566816919762322007-08-10T12:30:00.000-07:002007-08-10T12:30:00.000-07:0023.976p seems to be continually the problem, doesn...23.976p seems to be continually the problem, doesn't it? Perhaps the person with the issues tried a 2:3:3:2 inversion as opposed to a 2:3 inversion?<BR/><BR/>A lot of the HV20 news I've seen is the typical problem when new features get introduced at a consumer price point - confused consumers with no idea about pull-downs, drop frames and interlace. Not that there aren't confused pros...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-64448867303633151202007-08-07T08:12:00.000-07:002007-08-07T08:12:00.000-07:00Yes, the data format out of the HDMI port is 1920x...Yes, the data format out of the HDMI port is 1920x1080 4:2:2 YUV 8-bit. What happens early in the processing chain is not known outside of Canon -- I expect the internal processing is 1440x1080 just like it is with the Sony V1.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820803180730920007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-53013058429914351142007-08-07T06:13:00.000-07:002007-08-07T06:13:00.000-07:00Just too clarify your original post; the live (not...Just too clarify your original post; the live (not from tape) HDMI output is true 1920x1080.Jonas Hummelstrandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03884713887900137290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-49316294942936993382007-08-07T02:18:00.000-07:002007-08-07T02:18:00.000-07:00The problem arose when I did state that there can ...<I>The problem arose when I did state that there can be a subtle issue for chroma keying when using any 4:2:0 24p signal encoded into 60i.</I><BR/><BR/>Instead of weird 23,976 (not 24p!) in HV20 wrapped to 59,94i (not 60i !),<BR/>I prefer to use real 25p (HV20 PAL) without pain and issues.<BR/>Just hate these pulldown, drop frame, non drop frame...inches, foot...<BR/>Inches is a diametr of peniceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-4031196757476376212007-08-05T14:11:00.000-07:002007-08-05T14:11:00.000-07:001440x1080 is because that is the HDV standard, 192...1440x1080 is because that is the HDV standard, 1920x1080 is not supported as an HDV format no matter what the source pixel shape is (which I think is square in the camera.)<BR/><BR/>Thanks for pointing out the broken link -- now fixed.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820803180730920007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-80850350002332810102007-08-05T13:46:00.000-07:002007-08-05T13:46:00.000-07:00Isn't the format 1440x1080 simply because the pixe...Isn't the format 1440x1080 simply because the pixels are rectangular on the CMOS?<BR/><BR/>Also, the link to the NEO player on cineform's site is broken.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-19197542072351275992007-08-03T09:34:00.000-07:002007-08-03T09:34:00.000-07:00IMHO, both the "24p" and "cinema mode" bits on the...IMHO, both the "24p" and "cinema mode" bits on the HV20 are nothing but simple marketing gimmicks by Canon. The output leaves LOTS to be desired.<BR/><BR/>I am personally yet to be impressed by any HV20 footage I've seen so far, 24p or 60i alike.<BR/><BR/>Don't know what all the fuzz over the HV20 is about. Footage starts looking good at the XH-A1 level on up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-35629470931368718992007-08-02T19:32:00.001-07:002007-08-02T19:32:00.001-07:00Please comments on subject. Reviews for other came...Please comments on subject. Reviews for other cameras is not appropriate particularly when I'm not even reviewing this one. <BR/><BR/>Thanks.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820803180730920007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-50502686013421249652007-08-02T18:34:00.000-07:002007-08-02T18:34:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-29022015867570226782007-07-30T12:04:00.000-07:002007-07-30T12:04:00.000-07:00Got the downloads, and converted the MPEG to 24p u...Got the downloads, and converted the MPEG to 24p using CineForm tools with no issues. If seems your tool for extracting pulldown isn't working correctly.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820803180730920007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-82863216292130608832007-07-29T21:07:00.000-07:002007-07-29T21:07:00.000-07:00Your links don't work, so I still can't show you w...Your links don't work, so I still can't show you where you are going wrong.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820803180730920007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13372801.post-54376355109354423952007-07-28T20:49:00.000-07:002007-07-28T20:49:00.000-07:00I dont think it was 'some users ran with it,' I t...I dont think it was 'some users ran with it,' I think was just myself. I quote a credible source since everyone reacts so defensively when I bring up the infamous '4th frame issue.' Its downright bizarre. <BR/><BR/>Have been trying for weeks in vain to figure out why I am the only person who sees the HV20 24p footage as poor. HV20 fans get mysteriously riled, & support gets evasive over the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com